Cups and Balls

Cups and Balls Magic Reviews 


Product: PF Type Copper Plated Cups & Solid Kicker Cup

Maker: Zenneth Kok (lezliecheung username via ebay)

Price:    $129

Place your mouse on the above picture for a close up view

Overview:half0.5 / 5



At first glance the price of $129 post paid world wide for 3 PF type cups, kicker cup and working balls seems great, in fact it would be...  It would be if the cups were not plated with severe wearing to the plate, they were useable and everything was included as it should be.

What's Included?:

These were bought new from 2 seperate eBay auctions.  The first was for a set of 3 PF Type cups, crochet working balls, mini tennis balls, velvet bag and final load tennis ball.  The second was for the solid kicker cup with velvet bag.  The bags supplied were very thin faux velvet.

The crochet working balls and final load tennis balls were missing.

Delivery Time / Packaging:

These were bought on October 14th 2009 and received on 24th, the day a paypal dispute was opened.   The cups were stacked with the kicker cup jammed in the mouth of the 3 cup stack due to the bag being between them.  They were in a cardboard box barely big enough to hold them which in turn was wrapped in brown paper.

zenneth kok paul fox cups dent

The outer paper (and inside box) was unmarked but upon inspection the centre cup had a large 1"  x 0.5 deep dent.  Due to the unblemished packaging and the fact that the dent was above the shoulder bead on the centre cup it was apparent that the cups were sent in this condition and it was not done in transit.

Construction / Durability:

The Cups

The actual wording of the auction title was "Paul Fox Copper Cups and Balls" and in the item description they were described as "High Quality Paul Fox Style Copper Cups and Balls."  Later the phrases "These cups are made of high quality copper." and "A high gloss mirror finish" were used.

According to Zenneth these phrases implied that they were copper plated cups, I strongly dissagree.

zenneth kok paul fox chipped cups

In my opinion if you are selling copper plated cups you should describe them ascopper plated cups.  How do I know they are copper plated, well Zenneth told me they were in the paypal dispute communication and also due to the fact that there were chunks of the plating either worn away or missing on each cup.  They also had large scrapes around the circumference of each cup above the shoulder bead.

zenneth kok paul fox worn plating

The seller stated that these cups were copper cups which had been copper plated.  Why someone would copper plate copper cups is a mystery to me.  It wouldn't even save time or labour costs in polishing because the cups would need to be polished in order to be plated, I guess it will remain a mystery...

Place your mouse on the above picture for a close up view

The edges of the mouth beads on all cups had nicks and marks on them and there were spin lines visible through the plating.  As far as "doing what it say on the tin" then yes, these cups did hold a regulation tennis ball (the reason I bought them) and yes they did hold 3 x 1" balls on the saddle without sticking or floating.

zenneth kok paul fox cups mouth bead edges

The Solid Kicker

The solid kicker cup (also plated) was also poorly finished.  In addition to this, the mouth bead of this cup was twice the thickness of the other cups.  Obviously a kicker cup is meant to be rung in during a routine and needs to be identical to the other 2 cups used otherwise it is obvious. 

zenneth kok paul fox cups mouth bead

zenneth kok paul fox cups mouth bead comparison 2

zenneth kok paul fox copper cups

This is not identical and it will be apparently obvious it has been switched.


I've already stated that the cups performed as stated as far as attic space and final load space goes, they sat quite stable when nested too. 

These would be very reasonable, useable cups if they had arrived in new condition rather than being plated and looking like they had been dragged behind a "Just Married" car on pieces of string.

I have been using my Morrissey cups for 17 years and they are in better condition.

To be honest I believe these have potential of being rather nice cups and I would have loved to have been writing a glowing review right now, sadly I was sent a Poet's set of cups.  (Pi** Off Early, Tomorrow's Saturday.)


Overall, there's not much more to say.  These get half a mark out of 5 because they are PF cups that take a tennis ball and that is what I was searching for. 

The seller has admitted the cups are plated, that they were originally sent out in damaged and used condition and has offered a full and complete refund including return postage.

Offering a full and complete refund and providing one are very different things however...

I sent the package back, international priority signed for and uploaded a photograph of the receipt and tracking number and waited... and waited...

After tracking the package an attempted delivery was made on the 6th on November, however it was ignored as was any further communication from me so it was escalated to a claim through paypal.

Paypal requested a response and they were also ignored.  The package was picked up on November the 17th, however both Paypal and myself have still been ignored to date.

I have tried to contact the seller via Paypal, eBay, email and The Magic Cafe. So far,to no avail.

Sending cups out which were not as described, dented and badly finished is one thing, keeping the cups and the money after promising a complete refund is not something that should happen.

It's a shame I could not give these cups a great review, however I will update this page as and when a complete refund is received and send a newsletter update to all subscribers.


After weeks of awaiting response's the silence was deafening yet only hours after uploading this review I received a reply from Zenneth.  He stated (as he did on the original paypal communication) that he wanted to refund my cash.

There were still no payments from him in my paypal account though.  This morning paypal took over the case, looked at the communications, evidence and proof of postage and refunded the purchase price.  I am still waiting for Zenneth to refund the return postage.

I would not expect this normally, however I do not expect cups to be sent damaged and not as described.

I now also  see that the eBay auctions for these cups now states "No Returns Accepted."  Would you want to return cups you received in this condition or would you accept them?

I have just received the return postage as promised, all is well.  I believe I was sent a (very!) bad set of cups, though these could (I believe) be very nice cups indeed when in good condition.

© 2009 Cups and Balls Magic